Last week, the City of Trail announced that an investigator found Mayor Lisa Pasin and councillor Sandy Santori breached council’s code of conduct in their comments and actions toward councillor Robert Cacchioni in closed meetings. Pasin and Santori have since apologized, but they were also critical of the councillors who filed the complaint and the $49,500 cost of the investigation. It was the second code of conduct investigation during this term of council. Cacchioni was previously found to have breached the code in his comments toward former CAO David Perehudoff, who resigned. This is an interview with Cacchioni on the subject. An interview with Pasin can be found here.
Were you satisfied with the investigator’s findings?
I was satisfied with the findings but I’m not satisfied with the comments made at the Feb. 28 meeting. You’ll notice I never made a comment there.
What did you make of the comments the mayor and councillor Santori made?
I just think they should have accepted responsibility and that was it. When they accused me of breaching the code of conduct with the CAO, I never made any public statement about it. After the press release came out about me and David Perehudoff, I accepted it. Never said a word. I accepted the responsibility and I moved on.
They really didn’t, in my opinion, accept the responsibility. They diverted attention to [the cost] and talked about David Perehudoff costing this much money [in severance] when really that was a council decision, not a decision on my part. The most I would own of that is one-seventh.
As far as the $49,500, it’s another diversionary tactic. Under the policy, they had every opportunity when the complaints were filed to say “Yes, I believe I breached the code of conduct.” Then we wouldn’t have had an external investigation. You don’t have to have one. They had the opportunity to admit to the breach, but I guess they thought the investigation would show they were not in breach. If the $49,500 bill is on anybody’s heads, it’s on the heads of Mayor Pasin and councillor Santori. Not on mine, or not on those who filed the complaint.
This whole business is almost like the victims are being punished. Lisa Pasin, which I found really disturbing, questioned the integrity and credibility of three ladies who have worked tirelessly for the benefit of the citizens of Trail and benefit of council. No different from me. She questioned my integrity and credibility. That’s the way I interpret it, anyway.
Would you agree or disagree with the mayor that Trail council has a “toxic atmosphere”?
If it’s toxic it’s got nothing to do with me or the [other complainants]. If she thinks it’s toxic, let her explain that. I have no idea. We have had very little communication. I don’t think in the last 15 months I’ve spoken to her one time personally, outside of a meeting on Zoom. It’s concerning that there’s not more communication and respect shown for individuals who’ve worked for the community for years and years.
Would you agree council has been dysfunctional as a result?
Only in terms of interpersonally. Not in terms of what we got done. Anything we’ve had to do in terms of putting new sewer lines in, redoing the ball fields, upgrading whatever needs upgrading, putting a new roof on the Memorial Centre, upgrading the old library space, putting in the new playground last year … everything that needed to be done, there’s no question at all that in terms of actually doing the work of the city, it’s all being done.
What’s not being done is to have a council that’s unified together in some sort of responsible and respectful manner. That’s the problem. It’s going to be difficult to have people run for council if they see what we’ve experienced. That’s a concern.
How did you feel about Sandy Santori’s apology?
I accept his apology and would have accepted it again. But then he made a statement at the open meeting about how he would have apologized and cost the taxpayer nothing. He had the opportunity to do that before the investigation began.
It makes no difference anyway. I’m not going to be running for council anymore. I’m just afraid this is going to dissuade a large number of people who may have the best interests of the city in mind from actually running, thinking they may have to go up against this kind of situation, because it’s certainly not worth the stipend.
Having been both the subject of a code of conduct complaint and someone who has filed a complaint, what do you think of the process?
It can be weaponized easily. Code of conduct should be a very serious issue. I think the province is going to come up with their own code of conduct and I hope before we finalize this term, I can put forward a motion to eliminate the code of conduct we have right now and violence in the workplace [policy] and work with a provincial one.
Someone says something to me and it doesn’t really bother me, but someone else thinks that’s horrible and files a [complaint]. How responsible can you be for how someone takes particular comments, unless they’re really abusive? If you say “I don’t like what you’re saying and I think you’re wrong,” should that be reason to file a complaint? I don’t think so. If that’s reason, when can you ever have discourse or discussion?
Do you feel the mayor and councillor Santori should face any further consequences?
No, definitely not. I think it’s the end of things. Had they not made those unfortunate comments at the Feb. 28 meeting everything would have moved on. I was more than happy to move on. I don’t hold any animosity toward either one of them. This is business for me. Looking out for the interest of the city, that’s what I do, no matter how people take it. Not to go down there and fight. That’s not what councillors are supposed to do.